After Bigboy's report, I found the following interesting tidbit for those of you discussing strategy for this new game. I posted it in that topic but figured it belongs here as well:

If you bet 5 per hand, the payout would be as you expect.

But betting that 6th coin not only opens up quick quad chances but it bumps up the payout for a few things as follows:

After Bigboy's report, I found the following interesting tidbit for those of you discussing strategy for this new game. I posted it in that topic but figured it belongs here as well:

If you bet 5 per hand, the payout would be as you expect.

But betting that 6th coin not only opens up quick quad chances but it bumps up the payout for a few things as follows:

I don't think that has been noted thus far in this topic.

I noticed that right off. However, with the strategy in holding for QQ's you will definitely not get as many "naturals" as when you were always just holding Trips. For instance, if you have 333A5 you would be holding the 333A instead of the 333 which would reduce your chances of hitting the natural quad 3's with the kicker in favor of having 5 cards to hit for the QQ and 400 credits. Does that make sense? The bonus of 1000 would come in when dealt trip 3's with no potential kicker where you would discard the two extra cards and go for the natural or in the example, you got really lucky and hit that fourth 3 for the natural with a kicker! Same sort of thing with 33327. Basically, the same thing in holding the 3332 and hoping for either a three or an Ace!

If you played this game a lot, I think you would see a large reduction in the number of natural quads you hit. And, it would be foolish to discard a potential QQ card if favor of the natural in the case of trips. Playing 5 hands, you hit QQ's almost as often as NOT hitting them when you make that hold. It is a big bonus when you can hold an Ace with 2-4 when drawing to trips because of the outside chance of drawing the natural!

It is a very interesting game when you start analyzing the strategy for it.

Good points. However for the larger gain (+200) hands, I would think you are actually more likely to get 2s, 3s, 4s with a kicker in this one since you will be holding more kickers to have a shot at both the kicker hand or the natural payout (via quick quad).

In other words, are your odds of hitting 4's with a kicker really better holding 444 instead of 444A?

For the 4 Aces, I'm not sure the quick quad strategy harms that much so it is more of a straight up bonus.

Getting fewer natural quads doesn't hurt much if the quick quad payout has higher odds and the same return. Right?

Of course, there are a lot of variables involved here so I will defer to further experience before making any claims. Please correct me as necessary.

Without having the capability of simulating this game (Shadowman is working on it) I can do nothing other than speculate also.

When you are going for natural quads you first have to hit the 1 card in the deck you need to make the quad. The kicker is a lucky bonus. At least using DDB strategy.

When you are dealt low trips and don't have a kicker, then you have two chances of hitting the natural with the potential of hitting the big bonus if you do get the kicker. That is the way I usually catch my 800 credit low-balls.

Observation...I think that is correct: Your best low-ball chance of getting a QQ draw is with trip 4's. You can hit them with either Ace/3 or with 2/2. So you are more likely to have a draw for QQ than with 3's or 2's. If you have and Ace or 3, then you have a 4/47 chance of drawing what you need. If you are holding a 2, then you have only 3/47 chance of getting what you need. And that's interesting because the draw with the least liklihood of
hitting is the 4442? and with it, you still have the chance of getting
the fourth 4 with the kicker as well as one of the other three deuces
for 400.

Next would be 3's. With 3's, you have to have an Ace/Deuce. If you have one of these then you have 4/47 chance of getting the other one that you need. But you won't have as many draws to 3's as you do 4's because there is only one instead of 2 ways to draw to 3's. And that's interesting because the draw with the least liklihood of hitting is the 4442? and with it, you still have the chance of getting the fourth 4 with the kicker as well as one of the other three deuces for 400.

With 2's you have to have Ace/Ace and one of the aces would be in your hand so at best, you have only 3 cards to hit to make the QQ and 1/47 of getting the other deuce for 1000.

None of that comes into question though. If dealt a 222A? you are going to hold all 4 cards simply because you have 3/47 odds on getting one of those 4 cards that would pay 400 and 1/47 of getting the killer 4th deuce for 1000.

How all that factors into the overall ER, I don't know. It really is a facinating game concept. I'd like to see it offered as a single line game.

Originally posted by Webman

Good points. However for the larger gain (+200) hands, I would think you are actually more likely to get 2s, 3s, 4s with a kicker in this one since you will be holding more kickers to have a shot at both the kicker hand or the natural payout (via quick quad).

In other words, are your odds of hitting 4's with a kicker really better holding 444 instead of 444A?

For the 4 Aces, I'm not sure the quick quad strategy harms that much so it is more of a straight up bonus.

Getting fewer natural quads doesn't hurt much if the quick quad payout has higher odds and the same return. Right?

Of course, there are a lot of variables involved here so I will defer to further experience before making any claims. Please correct me as necessary.

I FINALLY got my program to work correctly (I think) and here are the final results: The perfect play expected return of DDB quick quads is 99.16%. Here are the various cycle times.

OK, started working on the strategy and I noticed a previous post of mine was incorrect. There are more situations where one breaks up a full house than just aces.

Here's the strategy I came up with. I used the VPSM color scheme and single credit values. However, I highlighted QQ changes in black for the most part. If I make updates I will edit this post with the changes. I'd suggest copying the data and placing it in your own file for quicker reference.

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